The Pinto Podcast

Show Me The Money

• Chris & Nancy Pinto • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Tackling the sensitive subject of salary transparency in the job search process! 
We get serious before we get delirious at the 11:16 minute mark.  Enjoy!

Pinto Employment Search LLC - Logistics & Supply Chain Recruiters
Chris & Nancy Pinto, Owners
Website:  https://www.pintoemployment.com/


Check Salary Info at:

Salary.com

Bureau of Labor Statistics

PayScale

Glassdoor

LinkedIn



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Chris Pinto
https://www.chrispinto.com/
IG: @chrispeterpinto
FB: https://www.facebook.com/chris.pinto.940
Twitter: @chrispeterpinto
LI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pinto-employment-search-llc/
Email: chrispintoactor@gmail.com

Music and Sound FX Credits: https://freepd.com/



Whether you asked for a job transition or not, searching for a new position can be scary, frustrating and disheartening.  Times and technologies change quickly, and there’s a lot to organize!  But the journey can just as easily be exciting, fruitful and rewarding.  I’m Chris Pinto. 

And I’m Nancy Pinto.  Together we own Pinto Employment Search, an executive recruiting firm specializing in the supply chain and logistics industry.  Our combined experience in transportation jobs and recruiting is over 50 years!  We’re here to help you navigate the world of resume writing, job applications, interviews, negotiating compensation, and everything in between - to help you land the job you want!  

We will also regularly drop a bonus episode where we announce current job openings we’re working on.  It’s set to music and state trivia, and we think it’s more fun to listen to job descriptions than read them, so give it a listen and share!  

Welcome to the Job Search SOS Podcast!  Today we’re gonna get a little uncouth and talk about money.   Like religion and politics, it can get messy and needs to be handled with finesse.  

There’s a lot of debate around salary transparency.  Should the company or recruiter advertise the compensation in a public job posting?  If not, should the job seeker come right out and ask, even before applying?  Should a candidate disclose his or her salary requirements?  (Please note, in many states, it is illegal for a company to ask an applicant for their actual current salary.)  In a first interview, is it smart - or tacky - for either the company OR the job applicant to discuss the salary first, instead of the opportunity as a whole? 

We’ll take a look at both sides, some pros and cons, and of course share our opinions and experiences.

CP: Let’s pretend I’m looking for a job and a new listing catches my eye.  It makes sense with my career path.  But I don’t see a salary.  Shouldn’t the job description always include the salary?   Transparency saves everyone time if it’s not in my ballpark.  

NP: But you can’t see the entire compensation package from only the base salary - what about benefits, 401K, bonuses, flextime, advancement opportunities, and so on?   Also, there’s an unwritten expectation that salaries (and sometimes extras such as commissions, bonuses and paid time off) are negotiable (within reason, of course).  Companies don’t want to lose great candidates - and candidates should not want to lose a great opportunity - over an initial number.  

CP:  OK, true, but what if instead of the salary being too low, the salary is much HIGHER than what I’m making?   It’s the same industry, same city, some responsibilities would be lateral but a few would be new.  Everything else is apples to apples.  I’m interested and I think I’d be great, but could I be underqualified?  Maybe I shouldn’t apply!

NP: You should do some homework to arm yourself with the salary range for this job - and your level of experience - in your market.  Check out  sites like the Bureau of Labor Statistics for starters (we’ll list a few more sites in the show notes).  Your qualification for the job depends on whether you have the skills it requires.  If it’s something you’re excited about, have some experience in, and have a plan to fill in the knowledge gaps, you should definitely apply.  Soft skills such as enthusiasm, relationship building, and willingness to learn go a long way.  And again, neither party wants to lose out on a potential great match over an initial number.  You have nothing to lose.  It’s also possible the company pays better than its competition!  

CP: What if after the whole process and discussion, it turns out the salary plus everything else really just isn’t workable?  Didn’t we just waste a bunch of time?  

NP: Well, if you’re out of a job, I think you have SOME extra time!  Remember, looking for a job IS your job.  But seriously, it’s seldom a waste of time, because you never know where the conversation will lead.  Maybe this particular job isn’t right, but they liked you and they will keep you in mind for something else that might open up.  Maybe the interviewer will turn out to be a valuable new connection that could somehow lead to a job.  Point is, it would be beneficial if you can say yes to the opportunity to network.  

CP: OK, makes sense.    

NP:  So, our humble opinion is that companies and recruiters should proceed with caution if they decide to publicize a salary.  It’s not trying to be coy.  It’s about not losing out on a potentially great match.  The number should not deter candidates from applying, nor companies from approaching candidates.       

CP: So now I’ve applied for the job.  Let’s say the recruiter or hiring manager calls me.  Should they THEN tell me the salary right away?  If they don’t, should I just interrupt and ask?  I don’t wanna be on the phone for an hour before they get around to telling me the salary just to find out it’s nowhere near what I’m looking for. 

NP: No one wants anyone’s time to be wasted.  It’s not like managers and recruiters have all the time in the world either.  In fact, believe it or not, hiring companies have been burned by candidates just using a job search to get a raise out of their current employer.  That being said, while compensation IS very important, and should be discussed before getting too deep in the process, it is generally perceived as bad form to make salary the focus of the initial discussion.  Same goes for hours and perks, by the way.    

CP: But why is that bad form?  

NP:  Because, I’m sorry to say, it comes across as shallow and unambitious.  Especially if it’s not handled tactfully.  Not everyone appreciates a blunt, direct approach.  Some business dealings out there in the world still require diplomacy.     

CP :  So how long do I wait?  

NP: Let the caller give you an overview of the job, discuss your qualifications, and answer your questions and concerns.  If it’s looking like a mutual fit, they will get around to the salary.   

CP :  What if they ask ME what I want BEFORE telling me the salary?  If I say a number that’s too high, they may shut it down.  If I go too low, I’ve just screwed myself.  How do I know what’s juuuuuust right? 

NP:  Ah, the Salary Dance!  I completely understand and sympathize with your position.  In our experience, if you’re interested in the job, you can say something like, “I’d love to know what the compensation package looks like and how negotiable it is.  I understand this type of job pays around x in this area, for this level of experience, so I’m looking for a range between x and y, but I’m also interested in the opportunity as a whole.”  This tells the company that you’ve done some research, you know your worth, and you’re willing to work with them on this.  Trust me, companies want you to be happy.  They don’t want to invest time and training (and possibly a recruiter’s fee) only to have you walk away a few months later for more pay, when they would have negotiated all along.  And recruiters want you to make a higher salary, because that’s how THEY put food on the table.        

CP :  OK, I'll do that.  Wait - what if  they refuse to tell me the salary unless I agree to go on an interview?  

NP:  I think - I hope! - that’s pretty extreme and unlikely, but feel free to say no if they won’t even have a conversation about it with you.  It’s reasonable to ask for transparency at SOME point!  I would also not feel great about working with someone who was trying to strongarm me into a meeting without answering my questions.

CP :   Fair enough.  So now let’s say I’m finally interviewing with the hiring manager, face to face. This is it!  Can I ask about salary here, now? 

NP:   Well, you don’t want to be the first to bring up salary, especially at the top of the meeting.  Get through the pleasantries, the first impressions, the job expectations, and your experience.  

CP :  (skeptical) Really?

NP: Yes.  Unless you’re the type of person who doesn’t care about ANYTHING except money, you should learn as much as you can about the company and position.  There are actually people out there who took a pay cut to get their foot in the door of a company they LOVED.  They looked at not only salary, but ongoing training, opportunities for advancement, commitment to social causes and environment, reputation, commute times, work from home flexibility, etc.  That being said, every company is different.  If you were sent by a recruiter, they may only negotiate salary through the agency.  Some will tell you the salary right away and ask what you expect, regardless.  And some will not bring it up at all, preferring to digest the contents of the meeting before deciding if an offer will even be forthcoming.    

CP :   I can see not talking about it at the beginning.  I guess it would be like THEM only looking at me as an expense, instead of listening to everything I have to offer.  But...do you really expect me to be ready to possibly leave the interview STILL not knowing the salary?  

NP:  No, not necessarily.  And I’m not trying to drive you crazy!  If you’re working with a recruiter, you should have gotten the salary from them anyway.  If you’re working directly with a company, your market research on appropriate compensation should be in your back pocket.  If the interview is wrapping up and they haven’t mentioned it, I still wouldn’t bring it up.  I’m sure some will disagree.  But in our experience, quite a few first interviews didn’t cover salary, even when both parties knew the salary range in advance of the meeting.  In those cases, salary wasn’t discussed until either a 2nd interview or a job offer was made.

CP : Oh wow.  So you mean even if the recruiter or HR person told me the salary, and I KNOW they know what I want, I STILL can’t bring it up?  Just to make sure we’re on the same page? 

NP:  If you decide to bring it up, it should be tactful.  The motive should come across as wanting to know not only the base salary, but just as importantly other great reasons to work there.  If it comes across as, “Your company is just a paycheck to me,” that might not give the best impression.

CP :  I definitely just want it to be a mutual fit.  I am not out to gouge the company or use them to get a raise.  Now that I think more about it, I guess if they make their salary public, it might set off some issues internally with their employees.  Plus, it’s not like there’s any obligation for me to accept the job if it’s offered, when all is said and done. I'll just be patient and see what happens. 

NP: You know what they say about what happens to those who wait.   Good luck!!!

CHRIS:   We hope you found our perspective helpful.  Let us know if you agree or disagree.  If you’re a hiring company, we would love to hear your thoughts on the subject!   

NANCY:  On the next episode of the Job Search SOS Podcast:  Does Chris get the job?  What will he wear on his first day?  And most importantly - what will he eat for lunch!

CHRIS :  Yes, a tuxedo, and microwaved leftover fish, of course!

 We’ll also drop a bonus episode announcing the hottest logistics jobs we’re working on.  Our website and contact info will be in the show notes of every episode, so please feel free to share with anyone you know, and reach out with comments, questions, or just to say hello!

Thank you for listening to the Job Search SOS Podcast!  

Please visit www.pintoemployment.com and feel free to reach out to us.  See you next time! 

Pinto Employment Search LLC - Logistics & Supply Chain Recruiters
Chris & Nancy Pinto, Owners
Website:  https://www.pintoemployment.com/


Check Salary Info at:

Salary.com

Bureau of Labor Statistics

PayScale

Glassdoor

LinkedIn